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[lbd_nytetrayn]

More from woekitten's journal...

....I still think the elevator to the moon is the most ridiculous thing CAPCOM has come up with for the X series. >>

My reply is thus:

The irony is astounding. So much science fiction, and one of the times they do something actually grounded in real-life factual scientific theory, they get blasted for it.

I guess we just need more Time Stoppers, Evil Energy aliens, teleporters, beam sabers, and stuff to make people forgive...

Incidently, according to Heatman, "Arthur C. Clarke already did a book about an orbital elevator called The Fountains of Paradise. It gives a lot of details about how the device would work. Clarke is also one of the smartest and most scientifically respectable men on Earth. He was knighted."

Heatman also added this quote: "His most important contribution may be the conception that geostationary satellites would be ideal telecommunications relays."

I'd also like to add that one should bear in mind that a mere 100 years ago, things such as computers, TV, cloning, orbital elevators, and even automobiles were all pipe dreams. Remember that Mega Man X does not take place today, but over 100 years in the future.

Just something to bear in mind before writing off X8 as hogwash there.

And incidently, from what Heatman and I can find, Capcom of Japan has called it an orbital elevator, not an actual "elevator to the moon," though I can see where part of that would come from, given the device's purpose in helping humans to migrate to the moon. Of course, he and I haven't played it yet, lacking PS2s, but from the beforehand knowledge that most people seem to base this stuff on, we seem to be on equal footing with others slinging mud, and so far, it seems legit.

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Comments

[gelgameth.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think Automobiles were around in some form in 1904... but definitely true for everyone else.. hell, radio definitely wasn't around...

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

Still close enough to count, I'm sure many thought they wouldn't last.

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Re: "Slinky To The Stars"

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

...so you're assuming that the elevator is connecting the Earth and the moon, then?

LBD "Nytetrayn"

Re: "Slinky To The Stars"

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

I'm going by what's been said, and what they've called it, and how the scientific concept which shares the same name works.

So far, the idea that the moon and Earth are connected by this has pretty much been one big assumption, not unlike 22XX being the time MMZ takes place.

LBD "Nytetrayn"

[thenekomancer.livejournal.com]

UOBRECPUBRFDNWMIF *migrane headache*

Hard to think, and that's what I'm trying to do right now. Maybe I should have mentioned this when you IMed me earlier, though it is kind of a non sequiter. While I think the idea of an orbital elevator (not a bridge to the moon) is plausible, and in practice beneficial for space travel, the actual idea of humans living on the moon is much more far fetched, even with their technology, and even if it's just temporary. I wanted to try to write an editorial on this before the game came out, but I'm so damn unmotivated. Maybe we could cowrite it if you think it's interesting. Anyway, without assuming what technological advanced the humans of the X series would have to help, here are the problems they would have to face that I can think of right now:

1. No air. Biggest implication, of course, humans can't breathe. Neither can animals or plants; it's a vacuum, so no food.
2. 1/6 Earth's gravity. Sure, jumping real high may be fun, but spending a considerable amount of time in weaker gravity will weaken your muscles. I'm not sure to what extent, but, the children of the moon may not be able to return to Earth. It also has another implication...
3. No atmosphere. The moon doesn't have strong enough gravity to hold onto one. Without an atmosphere you cannot have weather. On top of that, heat from the sun cannot be retained or repelled, so days will grow over 200 degrees, and nights will drop under -200 degrees. An what's more, there is nothing to block the UV rays from the sun. The dosage from things such as solar prominances wouldn't be like a death wave, but enough exposure will make people sick.
4. No resources. From what we can tell, the moon is pretty much soil material at least 1/3 the way into it. No special ores or metals, no water (some debate there might be in ice), nothing. Scientists could grow plants from the soil taken from the moon, but with no air or rain that really doesn't matter.
5. Long days. On top of the days and nights having extreme temperature variations, the days last roughly two weeks. This is because, over millions of years, the gravitational tug on the moon from the Earth has slowed its rotational speed so that the same face is always facing Earth. This is why we always see the "man on the moon."

Those would be the biggest issues, and there would probably be more. Sure, if we assume that their technology is advanced enough, we can think of ways to get around all of these issues, but considering the cost and effort I'm not sure if it would be worth it. I also don't see what makes them think they can hide from Mavericks on the moon, especially when they're using Reploids to do the work there.

[woekitten.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I remember reading about children who'd be born on the moon if we ever got that far ... their muscles wouldn't develop properly.

[woekitten.livejournal.com]

Oh, and my condolences on the migrane. I've been there and I've been there.

[thenekomancer.livejournal.com]

So I've read. It actually might not have been a migrane, as it was gradually feeling better while I was writing. From time to time I do get irritating headaches, sometimes they even make me sick to my stomach. However, I've heard some people complain they get migranes so bad they pass out, which I've never experienced. I really feel sorry for such people.

As for the moon thing, another thing I should mention is that humans would probably hate it. Sure humans are supposed to be really adaptable to new environments, but I think without so many of the creature comforts people are used to, they would grow homesick for the Earth quickly.

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

Hey, we know they wind up there eventually. I guess it's a choice between living and dying, even if there is some sacrifice to be made.

LBD "Nytetrayn"

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

Sure, no prob. But heck, they even had mining colonies and such in the original series, and a space colony in X5. I don't see this being too far different...

1) Bring air from Earth. Cultivate plants to help generate more air. This is, of course, going under the assumption they'd be creating artificial environments, something I believe that's been tested on Earth with "bio-domes" or whatever.

2) This is the same universe that has Gravity Man, and more recently, that stage in X8 where you have to switch it around. They can do something.

3) See 1 and 2. Artificial weather doesn't seem much an issue, either, as I seem to recall Wire Sponge's stage using just that. As for temperature, again, a controlled dome would no doubt help. It must've worked for Eurasia.

4) Ores or metals could come from Earth or asteroid mining, circa MM3. Water might have to be synthetically produced, plus environmentally controlled methods of cycling it. We covered air before as far as plants go...

5) *shrugs* I'm sure they could deal.

Sure, if we assume that their technology is advanced enough, we can think of ways to get around all of these issues, but considering the cost and effort I'm not sure if it would be worth it.

It sounds like it'd more worth it than staying on Earth, if things have gotten so bad from the wars that they chose to abandon Earth in the first place.

I also don't see what makes them think they can hide from Mavericks on the moon, especially when they're using Reploids to do the work there.

Got me there, though generally they do keep making more Reploids anyway. But the new generation who are working on this are believed to be immune to even the Sigma Virus, remember?

LBD "Nytetrayn"

[thenekomancer.livejournal.com]

It sounds like it'd more worth it than staying on Earth, if things have gotten so bad from the wars that they chose to abandon Earth in the first place.

That's just the thing, the Earth doesn't seem that bad off. It still appears to have forests, water, sunshine, weather, and so on. I think building a private, well guarded society on Earth would be much easier. This seems to be what Neo Arcadia is anyway.

But the new generation who are working on this are believed to be immune to even the Sigma Virus, remember?

Yes, but I'm assuming that's not really the case, otherwise the game probably wouldn't have a conflict.

[nova-eclipse.livejournal.com]

After X5, let's face it, Earth is a mess. Humans are living underground, literally, because the colony impact fucked up the weather patterns. This is the concept behind a nuclear winter and why crashing an asteroid in the Earth would have essentially the same effect. If a large enough object hits the Earth and throws up enough dust, it would block solar radiation and plunge the planet into a temporary ice age. How long it would last would depend on how much dust was thrown up. They also mention in X6 about radiation (depending on Eurasia's power plants), though that's less likely unless the Sigma virus emits things like gamma rays. If a colony exists with biodomes or whatever in space, I would think the humans would probably rather migrate there than live in caves on the Earth while the Reploids clean up on the ground. Also remember that the Zero series is at least 100 years in the future of the X series. During that time, with the help of Reploids, I'm sure the Earth was probably made habitable again, even if only in smaller areas.

As far as the Sigma Virus immunity thing goes, who says the strain couldn't have mutated? For that matter, who says you need the virus at all? From what I understand, the very first Mavericks weren't under influence of the virus at all. Only after the repeated appearance of Maverick behavior in Reploids were the Hunters established. Even then, the believed origin of the virus (Zero) hadn't fought with Sigma and given it to him until the Hunters were already fairly well-established. The first Mavericks didn't suffer from a computer virus; they made a concious decision. The Sigma virus is not the be-all end-all explanation to Maverick behavior that everyone thinks it is. True, it is a major factor, but let's not forget that Reploids are supposed to possess minds of their own. Not every Maverick was infected with it; some simply decided that they were better than humans and thus, that humans should serve them. Try to keep that in mind.

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

After X5, let's face it, Earth is a mess. Humans are living underground, literally, because the colony impact fucked up the weather patterns.

In truth, part of this is what no one gets; by X7, most if not all the damage was supposed to have been fixed.

How long it would last would depend on how much dust was thrown up.

No doubt a part of the Reploids(and rumored to be Harpuia's, among others) clean-up routine.

They also mention in X6 about radiation (depending on Eurasia's power plants), though that's less likely unless the Sigma virus emits things like gamma rays.

I really don't remember much about radiation being mentioned in X6, to be honest. Might look later, unless you want to dig around the script at MMN and point it out for me.

Also remember that the Zero series is at least 100 years in the future of the X series. During that time, with the help of Reploids, I'm sure the Earth was probably made habitable again, even if only in smaller areas.

Again, X7 seems to throw a wrench into that somehow... then again, they've retconned a lot lately, but that seems a bit much, in a way.

And MMZ is more likely at least 200 years from this point, as CM is 22XX and MMZ is simply "100 years after the X series," whenever that stops.

Also remember that the Zero series is at least 100 years in the future of the X series. During that time, with the help of Reploids, I'm sure the Earth was probably made habitable again, even if only in smaller areas.

It's what it does. Just seems Lumine and his boys are cocky 'cause they're all newfangled and sophistimacated.

As far as conscious decision goes, it is a very good point, but it seems humans are getting dumber and dumber as the years go by; just look at the Z series. But when it was merely some 'roid saying "screw you," rather than a virus saying it for him, they seemed to be easier to keep down.

LBD "Nytetrayn"

[gelgameth.livejournal.com]

I really REALLY like how they're playing up the "cocky new line of robots" angle.. This time they're actuall showing stuff for it and making it important. Something they should've been doing MUCH earlier in the series...

It'd be neat if independant of Sigma's influence, X8 happens just from Lumine and his buddies deciding they're too cool for school.. err.. humans.

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

This seems to be what Neo Arcadia is anyway.

Which is why I think this whole moon thing becomes null soon, anyway.

Maybe the decision to colonize was made by George Bush XII in a search for oil... ;P But let's not go there...

Yes, but I'm assuming that's not really the case, otherwise the game probably wouldn't have a conflict.

Of course. I'm just stating the rationale behind "no Mavericks on the moon." Murphy's Law, at its finest.

LBD "Nytetrayn"

[rika-blade-fal.livejournal.com]

..4) Ores or metals could come from Earth or asteroid mining, circa MM3. Water might have to be synthetically produced, plus environmentally controlled methods of cycling it. We covered air before as far as plants go...

Oh sweet Jesus. All the horrifying memories of virtual-mining come rushing back.

[steelthorns.livejournal.com]

Perhaps what you looking for is a better choice of words, then? The idea of an elevator usually has the image of it being attached to something. A teleporter/high speed transport that acts like a shuttle maybe a better way of thinking about it.

Come to think of it... didn't Willy Wonka have something like that?

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

Nekomancer/Heatman there can tell you some things about what this Clarke fellow wrote... the man was a visionary. But what it is supposed to be is a tall sort of launching point for spacecraft, which allows them to take off outside of Earth's atmosphere, where it is more cost and fuel efficient. Think of it as hang-gliding in space; it's easier to start from up high.

LBD "Nytetrayn"

[magnus-samma.livejournal.com]

Echoing coolfirebird's comment, when I hear "elevator to the moon" I think "elevator that connects the Earth to the moon." I've never heard of an orbital elevator or whatever the hell the practical version is called, so I have no reason to assume it would be anything else. You'll forgive me for never reading Arthur C. Clarke; my time's been otherwise occupied with Nobuhiro Watsuki and John Donne.

Given that, I don't know what the hell else we were supposed to think the damn thing was. Sure, the X series has had wierd shit before, but I submit that most of the things you've mentioned, "Time Stoppers, Evil Energy aliens, teleporters, beam sabers, and stuff," could simply be explained by advanced technology (or alien technology/physiology, in the case of the Evil Energy). A fucking elevator to the moon on the other hand, comprises practical engineering problems that no amount of technological advancement could overcome. Which, I freely admit, makes the point you're raising all the more plausible. I think it's highly likely that the Jakob Project is supposed to just be a mechanism for launching spacecraft from beyond the Earth's atmosphere. This makes sense, and as you have pointed out, has precedence in scientific theory. But we don't all have the knowledge of projected space exploration technology that you apparently do, so cut us some slack if we don't catch on right away. It's not MY fault the X series never references Shakespeare.

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

I'm just trying to figure out where the idea that it connected to the moon even came from... I'm not finding it from Capcom, and I just think it's unfair for them to catch so much flack for something they never even really stated, so far as I can see or tell.

As anyone knows, I'm not beyond blasting Capcom for doing something stupid. MMAC is proof of this. But I feel if we start blasting them for any thing we don't like whether they had something to do with it or not, or just because we(the fans) start making stupid assumptions, then it all becomes meaningless and our opinions become less valid.

I mean seriously, if someone curses the sky for being made of red mozzarella cheese, how much credibility does his opinion actually deserve?

LBD "Nytetrayn"

[magnus-samma.livejournal.com]

All good points. My point is that with -nothing- to go on, and given what Capcom -has- done in the past, to a lot of people it looked a -hell of a lot- like they were basing X8 around a stairway TO DA MOON. This does not mean our opinions are not valid, though I suppose it might demonstrate that we have less faith in the series than you do. I dunno.

And quite frankly, I'm not sure what the big deal is. Since when has the fans' opinions mattered to Capcom at all? Unless its a cadre of insane fangirls slavering for more Zero.

Oh, wait, they brought back Vile too. After eight games. My bad.

... I'm coming off as really crotchety and argumentative here. I'm not trying to be. I'm just tired. Ignore me.

[lbd-nytetrayn.livejournal.com]

...after 8 games? There are only 8 games, and he's been in 3 of them. :P

Anyway, I know that while the story can be a bit tough to follow sometimes, it's still usually pretty sound in the end, and even a lot of their technobabble-ish science actually has some degree of reality behind it.

LBD "Nytetrayn"

[magnus-samma.livejournal.com]

At the ruisk of thoroughly beating a dead horse...

MMX4-MMX8= 5 games

CM= 1 game

Xtreme= 2 games

so 8. tho maybe I shouldn't have counted X8... *cocks head to the side* I didn't count X8, why did I get 8? Meh, I'm not a math student...

And he's in two. Extreme 1 barely counts. :/